A Tea with Defrene
Emmy van Swaaij is twenty-four years old, currently lives in Barcelona, Spain, and has been channeling Defrene for less than a year. This is a relatively young age for this “intelligence” to blossom. Jane Roberts (Seth) was thirty-four, Mary Ennis (Elias) was forty-one, and Serge Grandbois (Kris) was twenty-five respectively. So Emmy is still in the very beginning stages of the energy exchange and is finding her way through the process. She is learning to deal with issues of personal responsibility for anything Defrene says and how it may impact another person privately or publicly. It takes time to build trust and confidence in this newly emerging “voice.” While we’re glad to share these notes publicly, it’s important to realize that she’s not yet ready for prime time. So we ask that you don’t contact her for a session, guidance, etc. at this point, but give her your support in whatever way works best. (See Defrene’s comments about “the road under construction.”)
In the mean time, Emmy and her boyfriend Gert-Jan have graciously decided to hold an ongoing series of “teas” or introductory sessions with family and friends that are well versed with the channeling phenomenon. If you don’t get to speak to Defrene at one of these teas, it just means that Emmy is more comfortable in this present format, and needs time before sharing her gifts with others in any larger, public way. Thanks!
January 19, 2007
Participants: Gert-Jan, Emmy, and Noa doggie in Barcelona, Spain, and Paul, Joanne, Rumi the cat, and Maya kitty in Castaic, CA.
Emmy phoned around 12:05 PM PST, which was 9:05 PM in Spain. She was using her Skype Internet phone. We talked for a long time and caught up on various things, the last part of which we began to discuss the Defrene phenomenon and how it has been slowly developing over the past year. As session time approached, Emmy mentioned that her arms were tingling in a way that’s hard to describe (she’ll add more about this in her blog).
Defrene (pronounced de-free-nuh) arrived at 12:56 PM. She began speaking slowly and signing. (We learned in the earlier discussion that Emmy knows two sign languages – Dutch and Catalan – but Defrene uses a unique type of signing that is different.)
Defrene began by stating there were several topics that she would like to discuss. She mentioned that Emmy, and Atin-Khum (her “essence name” as as given by Kris), was being prepared in steps to manage this energy exchange, and there were many levels of communication involved. All take time to develop.
She said that there was a “need for practical tools to be able to integrate various sources into every day mundance use,” and that we at NewWorldView share a similar goal with her approach, that is, integrating various sources (thinking of the Integral Conscious Creation work Joanne and I have been developing for the past ten years). Also, it’s important to “balance our inner experiences with every day physical life, using both not excluding one over the other, as happens from time to time.”
The next topic area was dreams, dreaming, and methods to work with dreams without being too rigid. We need to learn our own personal dream “language” and “symbols,” and that requires study and effort. Bridges need to be built between the waking and dreaming selves, to better “understand the connections between both aspects of reality. We need more leeway and a playful approach in the disocvery of who we are. Seriousness is fun, but we need to value and appreciate what we’re doing in these pursuits.
Defrene mentioned that she is using types of communication not well known presently that have existed in our past (she was referring to her use of signing, which is a fascinating aspect of this particular energy exchange).
She mentioned “families” of languages exist and they overlap in the way they employ sound and gramatical structures to represent meaning, ideas, concepts, etc. The signing is “part of a family of languages that existed in our past, but that got lost due to more focs on the spolken languages.” The language she uses is part of that family of languages. “So languages in the past show much overlap” as the language she uses.
Defrene’s sign language includes a lot of passion and feeling (we could only can hear it, but Gert-Jan could see it.) She asked Gert-Jan’s help in making a short video that would help explain her use of signing in more detail (a picture’s worth a thousand words as we say.)
Defrene also revealed her sense of humor in saying that the video would include no cursing and no taking cloths off (which I found very funny, because it never crossed my mind, but maybe it crossed someone else’s? ;-)
She also used a pseudo-deep voice to pretend like she was some all powerful Wizard of Oz type, but assured us that this kind of “abrakadabra stuff” was not part of her style.
Defrene said that she would take a break and then come back and we could ask questions (I had made a sincere effort to just listen and allow Defrene to talk. I better understand the patience involved on her end in wanting to say so much once given the precious opportunity to communicate in this fashion!)
Break at 1:12-132 PM.
During break we talked about the first part and reviewed the topics. Emmy realized that Gert-Jan couldn’t hear us during the first part, and turned on her speakers. We will check out using Skype and a video link the next time because Defrene’s signing is such an important aspect of the energy exchange.
As we were waiting for Emmy to “step aside” and allow Defrene through, Gert-Jan made a joke that cracked her up, which she shared. He had cracked, “hasta la pasta” – a reference to a Dutch kid’s show they used to watch that meant, “see you later alligator!”
Jo and I looked at each other and smiled because this is the same expression that Mary Ennis sometimes uses as she’s clearing her mind to “step aside” and engage her energy exchange with Elias.
As Defrene returned she mentioned that this was a new format, in terms of Q & A, one that Emmy had some anxiety about earlier, but apparently was ready to engage with us. I asked a question about a lucid dream that popped into my mind earlier when Defrene first mentioned the topic of dreams. I had been meaning to ask Kris about it, but the opportunity had yet to present itself, so I thought it would be a good way to gauge Defrene’s approach at this point.
The following is from my dream journal:
12:23 AM April 14, 2002: We went to bed at 10 PM and it was more like 10:30 until I settled down. I was sleeping lightly, I recall waking up around 11 PM, checking the clock and feeling like I hadn’t fallen asleep yet (meaning deeply asleep). So I’m guessing that somewhere around 11:30-45 PM I entered the vibrational state – that familiar tingling in the spine with a focal point in the medulla oblongata region of the brain stem.
There are two main dreamscapes that I recall, each one marked by a return to or awareness of being semi-awake back “in body,” yet not being able to make a time check due to sleep paralysis (this doesn’t bother me at all, in fact, it helps me stay in the vibrational state and project again and again. This is just the opposite reaction of people who don’t have a framework in which to appreciate this special state and are freaked out by it).
I did finally manage a time check at 12:16 AM, but that woke me up enough so that I did not continue, as I wanted to record and reflect on my experiences up until that point. I also noted that my memory was extremely sharp and detailed, in fact as I type this over two days later the memories are as clear as any waking memory during that period of time.
The first projection occurred in my childhood bedroom (in Elkins Park, PA), a familiar projection dreamscape over the years, and one that I use because I’m so comfortable exploring the “unknown” reality of my subconscious there.
Joanne is sleeping in the bed to my left, as opposed to my older brother Nick who was my childhood companion. So that mirrored my contemporary sleeping arrangement as Jo has always preferred to sleep on my left side.
So I became “awake” in the pre-projection, vibrational state, and it was not as difficult to pierce to veil. Yet, I felt that familiar resistance to projection that elicits an intentional effort to project. So I concentrated on my medulla area, tensing my projection body neck muscles, and this greatly intensified to vibrations, opening the way to a projection. I remember lifting up my right projection form arm, but still being “in body” in the vibrational state.
I mentally chided myself, thinking, “well, are you going to just lay here or are you going to get up?” So I told myself to “get up!” and I did! Poof! Piercing the veil, forming and projecting a body double, ALWAYS feels pleasurable, like a strong resistance just before breaking the sound barrier, as an analogy, and increasing pressure and resistance and then, voila! You are through!
The vibrational state CAN be rough though, particularly when you are just stuck there, not focused enough to “get out.” It feels like you are plugged into an electric outlet. Though in this experience, the intensity was relatively moderate and didn’t bother me at all.
Once out, I walked to my left, over toward where our dresser door was, and then I walked to the right, over to the window by the radiator that overlooked our back yard. An interesting thing happened during this sequence.
When I was at the first location, the dresser, I was curious to see my physical body, so I looked back and saw it laying in the bed under the covers in the darkness. As I watched, I observed another body double, a body triple, project out and walk right toward me by the dresser. There were three MEs in the room at that moment. It was very amazing to observe my projection form emerge from my sleeping body.
Again, when I went over to the window, I stopped and looked back and this body-triple again, just followed toward me in some strange sort of instant replay. I was intrigued to say the least as this is the first time I have observed anything like it.
I continued my walk, back through the bed back toward the dresser near the bedroom door and waited again. At this point, as my body-triple approached (my awareness or the memory I’m recalling was from the body-double) I stuck out my hand to touch it/me. The body form was warm, fleshy, and quite solid! The delay was about 7-8 seconds throughout each of the three observation points, and it was very cool and trippy to observe in the dark room. The body-triple was not ghostly or illuminated, just fleshy, just a regular looking projected body. I couldn’t interact with it or engage it in conversation, nor did the thought or impulse enter my mind.
This entire scenario happened in a matter of seconds, and yet it is the first time I recall anything of this sort. It was unusual for me to have to interest (courage?) to look for my body on the bed. But in recent months I have set an intention that, if and when I project, I want to observe my sleeping body and learn more about its energy anatomy and attempt to observe the energy centers (or chakras, which reminds me that I had a dream about observing my energy body this AM, actually it was the little focal points in my fingers that I saw).
Anyway, this body-triple kept just following me and was observable whenever I stopped and looked back. In hindsight, it feels more like some kind of time shifting, since I did not have split awareness (as suggested in the Robert Bruce book Astral Dynamics). It was definitely the inner sense of differential time that allowed me to create this perception in this state, though I did not image it in those terms during the experience.
So I had this in mind when I asked for Defrene’s interpretation. She mentioned that my clear 3-D imagery was an insight into what actually happens “in the background” but was displayed (or translated) in a way that I could grasp. She used the analogy of standing inside a rolled up film and seeing all possible events or probable variations at once. She referred to blinks (which I assumed was a referernce to the Plank speed that Seth and Elias have discussed in terms of physical construction/creation). But in my case I focused on one probable series and “saw” its structures. It was unique that I could experience this directly “from the inside out” like a living diagram of sorts of physical reality creation, but seen from the focus or egoic perspective. I saw in 3D experience what is always happening in physical terms.
Her explanation made great sense, and was an experience that has only occurred once. It was very unique and always puzzled me as to what and why I was doing this. My dream journal entry didn’t trigger any further recall or issues that I was exploring at the time, though I know the experience was triggered by whatever I was reading and exploring at that time.
Defrene also mentioned that LSD can have a similar, yet traumatic effect, which kind of took me by surprise. (I have written about those experience online, so Emmy may well have read them in the past 6-7 years that I’ve known her.) I commented that I had done some intense LSD and other psychedelic experimentation back in the 1970s and early 1980s, and that the 3-D trail effect was indeed similar to the visual hallucinations that so fasinated me in my teenage years. I could see how large doses of the drug without any conceptual framework to explain the altered-focus could be traumatic and is something to be guarded against. But interestingly, the effect was similar! Defrene also mentioned that this dream could help me let go of some of the negative aspects of some of those early experiences (nothing specific immediately popped into mind, though I did have some intense, fearful experiences, which I am re-imagining based upon this dream interpretation).
In hindsight, this projection experience was a beautiful way to stretch my egoic consciousness in the safe confines of my dreaming body and obtain a direct taste of how my inner self is co-creating much of what goes on “behind the scenes.” I had always wondered just what the hell I had created in that experience, and the idea that I was directly conceptualizing space-time, probabilites, physical creation, etc. makes perfect sense. The “triple-body” effect was fascinating and unique.
Jo then asked a question about taking on other people’s energies in relation to a recent event in which a neighbor and friend’s 18-yr. old son was in a horrific car accident, had severe head trauma, reconstructive surgery, and is still in a coma as I write. Defrene suggested a lovely exercise tailored to Jo. She loves to take showers, and Defrene suggested she take one and imagine the flow of emotions, feelings, and thoughts just dissapate, do down back to its source with with water. Let it gradually go! It’s important to visualize this process, too. Imagine you’re “turning down the volume on a radio.”
Defrene also mentioned that our feelings are a communication, and we need to pay attention to them.
Jo thanked her and then asked if she was willing to offer any information on Blaze’s status or intent in creating such a horrific experience. She said the situation was still “very flexible,” which I interpreted to mean that the probabilities were still very fluid in terms of just how severe and affecting his injuries will be in terms of his recovery. Defrene said, “it’s a very major turning point that affects many people. It’s important to take some special time for giving this person the space to sort this out, to trust that he is able to sort this out. Even though everyone wants him to wake up as soon as possible, it’s important to trust it will take the pace it’s supposed to take, even though it’s difficult to wait. It’s nerve-racking!”
Defrene then said, “we could offer some singing to help in relieving some of your cropped up emotion, if you are comfortable with that.” And that it may take some time because she “has to access a different layer of communication.” (By the way, I just have to mention here positive, balancing impact of FINALLY having a “female tone” communicating in this energy exchange, the energy is definitely colored more by a feminine archetype: more receiving, flowing, feeling, manifesting, birthing, etc.)
She then sang a two minute song (estimating) in a minor key, with a lilting, flowing, expressive tone that was very soothing to my relaxed mind, and brought tears to Jo’s eyes. It definitely released some cropped up emotions from the past 24 hours for both of us.
Jo asked if the song was a general healing song or was specific to Blaze’s situation and she said it served both functions. Jo also asked if we could make it available online on NWV, and Defrene said, “yes.” She also wanted us to offer a disclaimer that one should not listen to this song absentmindedly or capriciously. That is was meant to release emotions and could produce some unexpected results if listened to properly (I had the joking impression to add “don’t operate heavy machinery or drive a car while listening to this,” like some medications do! :-)
Defrene said it works on multiple levels and will cause emotional responses (no accident that it’s in a minor key, though I distinctly heard at least two altered tones that make it more on the dorian or phyrigian side of the modal musical scales.) She also said we could hold hands while listening to it (is that the goddess speaking or what!?)
Jo thanked Defrene and said she was glad to meet her and looked forward to a long and fruitful relationship, which I seconded. Interestingly, Defrene responded that this was in objective terms only and that the relationship was “already well established,” to which I shared my earlier impression that this energy personality essence was indeed an “ancient friend,” much like I feel about Elias and Kris. It’s all in the family!
Finally, Defrene told us to take a drink (I was sipping on home-made red tea) and get some rest! She said she might make a return (and it was good to know that Defrene was willing to continue). End at 2:08 PM.
We talked with Gert-Jan and Emmy for another twenty minutes, and told them how pleased, proud, and supportive we were of their work with this energy exchange! And to continue to take it one day at a time and explore all the many nuances of what’s involved. For example, when Emmy came back, she said she was very emotional, felt like she had just finished a long crying spell, and we explained all the events relating to our friends and their son Blaze. So it’s clear that Emmy’s still learning how to deal with the many nuances of the energy exchange and other people’s needs, situations, and challenges.
Emmy made a comment that Defrene had called me the “enthusiastic professor” some time ago – a label that I gladly accept! What strikes me most at this stage is that there is no obvious pathology that I can find in the dissociative state, the inclusion of hand signing, feminine tone, and “Sumari” singing also make this a rare phenomenon at such an early stage. I have to remind myself that even though I’ve been involved in channeling for thrity years overall, and ten years full-time, it always takes time for this “intelligence” to flower. And we have a wonderful front row seat to observe Emmy’s growth in the years ahead.
We also told Gert-Jan that he has a very, very important role to play in how this phenomenon develops, and that he serves a kind of grounding role to help Emmy deal with the changes of entering and exiting trance, dealing with emotions and other related aspects.
Finally, after we say our goodbyes, Emmy called back and said she had forgotten to hit the record button! Ironically I had an impulse to tape the session, but we couldn’t find a clean tape (which spurs me to finally buy a digital recorder). So the session and the song exist in our memories. Emmy recorded another version of the song and sent it along. We’ve make that available in the Downloads section.
(I also requested that she go back and number her sessions and add times to the beginning, breaks, and ending to add to our knowledge about the phenomenon. I would also like to add a request that she and Gert-Jan record all audio at CD quality [44.1 Khz, mono, 16 bit], and all video at the highest resolution available!)
(Emmy’s characteristics at this “acorn” stage of the phenomenon include:
Ø Defrene has a feminine translation in tone
Ø Arms and hands “tingle” as Defrene makes herSelf known
Ø Eyes mostly closed
Ø Speech rate is slow, de-lib-er-ate
Ø Hand signing
Ø “Sumari” Singing
Ø Aware that Defrene tailors content to her audience
Ø In terms of how deep the dissociation is: Emmy’s somewhat aware of what is said, concepts, and feelings involved. So she is “around” much like Serge/Kris, and Seth/Jane during the early sessions, though quite different from Elias/Mary who exhibits the deepest dissociation and recalls very little in objective terms.